tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post3307105806568536226..comments2024-02-10T10:20:14.121-08:00Comments on A Daily Scoop: Standards Night Purity TalkStephanie Waitehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08952237536421682841noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-15775637982274147772012-11-13T23:11:23.430-08:002012-11-13T23:11:23.430-08:00Please take any advise from Emalee Coon Banks with...Please take any advise from Emalee Coon Banks with a grain of salt. Or maybe with a mountain of salt. She has abused many of her patients, myself included, both emotionally, and spiritually. She has frequently violated the code of conduct at LDS Family Services, and I have documents to prove it. She once told me that not a single couple had ever stayed the course in her marriage counseling sessions, which by inference means that she has presided over an awful lot of divorces. She regularly dispenses legal advise to couples. She does not have standing before the Utah State Bar, but I guess pillow talk is just as good as a law degree. I would give you more specifics, but I think I'd better let Darren Davis and Tim Kosnoff handle that part.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-6199314114865816482012-10-22T00:38:50.759-07:002012-10-22T00:38:50.759-07:00I love this talk. Awesome job. I have never heard ...I love this talk. Awesome job. I have never heard the term "Levi Lovin'" before, and have to say it made me laugh a little. Did you actually use that term in the talk? LOL!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-75375773969093047012012-10-20T21:21:17.617-07:002012-10-20T21:21:17.617-07:00Sorry for the poor grammar! I was typing from my p...Sorry for the poor grammar! I was typing from my phone.chercardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13314841357351024070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-68805421619314198112012-10-20T21:12:32.721-07:002012-10-20T21:12:32.721-07:00A dear friend of mine had a baby out of wedlock 22...A dear friend of mine had a baby out of wedlock 22 years ago. She is temple worthy an amazing, she feels no guilt or shame and hasn't for years, but she will tell you that the consequences of her choices still follow her and her son all these years later. She speaks to YW very powerfully about repentance and the Atonement but also shares the reality of choices and consequences. Teaching purity and morality is of utmost importance to our kids and teens these days!chercardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13314841357351024070noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-6214098631327946922012-10-20T08:42:14.666-07:002012-10-20T08:42:14.666-07:00I agree, except for your definition of Godly Sorro...I agree, except for your definition of Godly Sorrow. Ezra Taft Benson has a good essay called "A Mighty Change of Heart" that explains Godly sorrow perfectly. Suzanne Millarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-38361426709735253982012-10-20T08:38:36.641-07:002012-10-20T08:38:36.641-07:00I think that Stephanie understands what she is tea...I think that Stephanie understands what she is teaching. I also think that it isn't shameful to teach morality, it's importance in this world, and that there are very real consequences for disobeying Gods commandments. I think that if she tried to make the youth in her congregation feel ashamed of their disobedience, that would be wrong. Shame turns us away from God. Stephanie was not leading a shame based discussion on morality. Her opinion shouldn't change on this matter. Suzanne MillarSuzanne Millarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-41345072059740401132012-10-20T00:41:13.601-07:002012-10-20T00:41:13.601-07:00This is in no way a criticism ...I teach the same ...This is in no way a criticism ...I teach the same principles you do..but my perspective has changed quite a bit as I have teenagers now. It will be interesting to see if yours does too. <br /><br />It's great you have practice in addressing these very important subjects.Christyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03596171356725716093noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-59636061123030383672012-10-19T23:31:14.054-07:002012-10-19T23:31:14.054-07:00Suzanne,
Yes. Atonement does have power to cleanse...Suzanne,<br />Yes. Atonement does have power to cleanse and take away Godly sorrow. Been there. Done that. Felt my sorrow swept away. See also Alma the Younger saying how great was his joy when he is forgiven. <br /><br />Sorrow and guilt should be swept away when forgiveness is obtained from the Lord. The problem is that we as humans sometimes like to hold back on forgiving ourselves. <br /><br />And one thing I think is important to this topic of teaching teens about purity is to teach that it is HUMAN to make mistakes. That is why those of us who have been down the road a bit further try to teach kids to wait marriage. We know how easy it is to screw up. <br /><br />That is why we teach kids to stay far from the line between ok and screwing up. <br /><br />To err and learn from our mistakes is human. To learn based on another's experience is easier and wise.Stephanie Waitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08952237536421682841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-36724223487739951032012-10-19T20:45:22.184-07:002012-10-19T20:45:22.184-07:00It would be great to have a book club discussion o...It would be great to have a book club discussion of "Weakness is not Sin," by Wendy Ulrich. I hope you read it. It gets into a lot of detail about godly sorrow v. shame. Both shame and Godly sorrow can include uncomfortable feelings about having done something we feel is wrong and has hurt someone. That is where the comparison ends. Shame leads people to hide and blame; Godly sorrow leads people to confess and repair. Shame inhibits growth and esteem, while Godly sorrow leads to enhancement of both, providing an impetus to genuine change. With shame we see ourselves as bad people who should hide from others and God; with Godly sorrow we come to believe that we have done something wrong that goes against Gods moral standards. Godly sorrow leads us back to gods love. Godly sorrow isn't bad, it's a great blessing. Godly sorrow is a beautiful gift that our Savior has given us through his atonement for us. <br /><br />A leaders use of shame over sinful behaviors may lead to a temporary obedience. But shaming is not a good long term strategy because it motivates by fear instead of by righteous desire. Stephanie, I think you were leading by a righteous desire for the youth you were teaching. Thank you for your beautiful message. I learned a great deal and will store up in my mind your analogy of a fire and how it relates to morality. <br /><br />A really interesting discussion to begin would be to answer the question of whether or not the Atonement has the power to cleanse AND take away Godly sorrow. Next time:)<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Suzanne Millar<br /><br />Suzanne millarnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-74371961287582931242012-10-19T18:29:37.449-07:002012-10-19T18:29:37.449-07:00Stephanie and Anonymous,
Thanks for responding. W...Stephanie and Anonymous,<br /><br />Thanks for responding. What an interesting discussion. I think my concern is emphasis. The message of the gospel is love, hope, grace, the atonement, and Jesus Christ. The aforementioned are not mere footnotes to messages of purity, modesty, chastity, perfection, etc.<br /><br />As a therapist, I see that oftentimes shame and hopelessness are the most powerful forces in a person's life. The majority of youth (including lds youth) will have sex before marriage (check the research if you don't believe me). They often feel tremendously ashamed, filthy, like used goods, broken, etc. These wounded souls (and we are all wounded in one way or another) need messages of hope and love. That, in my opinion, should be the emphasis of the gospel.<br /><br />It is not to say that I am Pollyanna about real life consequences. I know they exist and I see them in my work. I am speaking out merely to say that our youth receive so many messages that make them feel awful (I dealt with the consequences of harmful messages personally for years). We need to be thoughtful and loving. We need to be Christlike in our dealings. <br /><br />Stephanie, good luck with the bar exam. My husband took the bar almost 6 yrs ago. It was so stressful and we did not even have any children at the time, so I cannot imagine. Good luck. Work hard and everything should come back (the research says it will, but it may take a few weeks for your brain to get back in shape). <br /><br />Thank you for allowing me to share my opinion.<br /><br />Warmest Regards,<br /><br />EmaleeEmaleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03495699291408592003noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-71041636926017282832012-10-19T15:35:50.353-07:002012-10-19T15:35:50.353-07:00Hi Emalee,
I understand what you are saying. I th...Hi Emalee,<br /><br />I understand what you are saying. I think, however, there is a distinction between the power of the atonement to wipe away our sins and make us clean before the Lord (which it does fully and completely) and the power to remove consequences of our actions (which the atonement does not do.)<br /><br />The point is not some choices we make have consequences that can not be removed by repentance. Our sins can be made white but if you get pregnant, repenting isn't going to make the pregnancy go away. It isn't going to cure you of a disease you may get. And it won't remove from another person's mind the image of you or knowledge of you naked. These are consequences of choices. <br /><br />The Atonement can and does wipe away guilt and godly sorrow. It can help you have peace and strength to deal with the consequences. But it just doesn't wipe them away.<br /><br />I was talking to a friend once who got pregnant in high school and kept the child but did not marry the father. It was years later and she was in love with a young man and he loved her too but would not marry her because of her past and the fact that she had this child. It was a great sorrow to her. She was telling me that she felt like the atonement didn't work because if it did then he wouldn't care about her past because it would be like it didn't happen. It wouldn't still be causing trouble in her life.<br /><br />As soon as she said this it was like a lightening bolt to my soul. So clear an understanding came to me. I told her she was wrong. The atonement did work. She was clean. She no longer carried the burden of a sin stained soul. She knew she was acceptable and pure before the Lord. The Atonement did what it was meant to do. It made her clean as snow and erased the stain of sin on her soul. <br /><br />But her actions and choices came with consequences that she would have to live with for the rest of her life. One of the consequences was that she would have a child to raise and she would have to deal with the father of that child at least till he turned 18. And she had no control over the fact that that consequence had another consequence in that it influenced this young man in his decision of whether or not to marry her. <br /><br />The atonement doesn't undo what you have done. It makes you spiritually and can make you emotionally whole before the Lord. <br /><br />It is important the kids understand this because it is better not to sin in the first place than to sin thinking you can always repent and make it like it never happened.<br /><br />much love,<br />stephanieStephanie Waitehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08952237536421682841noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-64443276207727694832012-10-19T14:47:59.024-07:002012-10-19T14:47:59.024-07:00Hi Emalee,
Research the difference between Godly...Hi Emalee, <br /><br />Research the difference between Godly sorrow versus shame. A good reference is a book written Wendy Ulrich called, "Weakness is not sin." There is a good discussion there about the importance of Godly sorrow and why it's an important part of our lives on our journey in this life.<br /><br />Hope this helps with your question and concerns,<br /><br />Suzanne MillarAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7260216734032540750.post-20476644334704808782012-10-19T11:59:23.157-07:002012-10-19T11:59:23.157-07:00Stephanie,
I have read your blog for a long time ...Stephanie,<br /><br />I have read your blog for a long time and I really like it. I have enjoyed learning about your family and how you have grown and the faith you have shown around Camille's death. <br /><br />I like the fire analogy you are using and I had one question. You essentially say that you can't "unring a bell" if you are too sexual with someone. How does this thinking jive with the atonement and our crimson sins becoming as white as snow? There is no stain, no left over residue, no leftover nail holes after they were pulled from a board, smashed cupcake, chewed up piece of gum (any other shaming object lesson). God remembers our sins no more when we repent. <br /><br />I am a therapist for the church we share. I see many people who have sex before marriage. I see many who see themselves as "damaged goods." I know first hand how damaging lessons on chastity, modesty, purity can be. I believe that we are all chosen and loved equally by God because He is our Father and we are His children. I do not believe that that love lessens when we make mistakes. That is the message our youth (who are leaving the church in droves) need to hear. <br /><br />Please know that I am not criticizing anything in the lesson. This is just a plea for us all to remember that God loves us and He loves all. Thank you for sharing your family and your testimony.<br /><br />Emalee BanksEmaleehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03495699291408592003noreply@blogger.com